slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,366
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Post by slugabed on Dec 26, 2011 22:16:20 GMT
MUCH worse now,Art....
I drive the A413 (at least) once a year and was amazed at the tree-growth when I went by in November.
I think it WAS Swanbourne where the rails went for a walk...
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Post by tubeoperator92 on Dec 26, 2011 22:29:37 GMT
As you head out of Winslow towards Claydon, there is a lovely three arch bridge that crosses the road at a skew angle... it looked nice until you saw the trackbed... where it had obviously moved to to embankment slippages the track was buckled and rails were misaligned and tilting in on themselves... aided by missing Pandrol clips. I found it amazing that bits of cable no longer than 2ft, were missing at random places...
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Post by metrailway on Jul 25, 2012 16:22:28 GMT
It was recently announced that the Varsity Line will now be electrified by 2019. A very nice surprise for a line which hasn't even opened yet!
It is intended that Chiltern will completely operate the Varsity Line (Oxford - Bedford). Thus, there will be a mix of diesel and electric units in the Chiltern fleet. In 2022, the Class 165s, which make up the majority of the diesel fleet, will be reaching 30 years of service. Oxford - Coventry will be under wires as well by then. Thus, it is likely that whoever wins the Chiltern franchise in 2022 will need to electrify the remainder of the Chiltern Line.
So what happens to the Aylesbury Line?
The first conversion from 750V DC 3rd rail to 25kV AC OHLE has been announced and there will be no further extension of 3rd rail land. So it is very unlikely that Network Rail (and the Govt) will accept 4th rail on their bit north of Amersham and south of Harrow. Other electric options are OHLE with changeovers to 4th rail at Amersham and Harrow or complete conversion of the Met north of Harrow from 4th rail to OHLE. Both, however, I feel are unlikely as OHLE is alien to LUL.
So despite the cost to the franchisee, taxpayers, and passengers on the Aylesbury line, I fear we will end up with a small elderly diesel fleet operating the line, while the rest of the franchise including the Snow Hill commuter lines in Birmingham, will enjoy nice new trains.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 829
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Post by castlebar on Jul 25, 2012 16:35:44 GMT
metrailway, I heard/saw the announcement too ( I think one said Cambridge, not Bedford - which really has caused me to wonder), but l think it is too soon to speculate regarding traction power. We're lucky to get a rebuilt railway of any description whereas the Scot & Welsh regional govt's are throwing money at rebuilding/reinstating new lines. Best policy here is "Wait, not speculate" I think.
I do agree though - there is almost a ban on any more 3rd/4th rail build north of the Thames, and it cannot make economic sense to put catenary Aylesbury - P Risborough
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 25, 2012 17:12:10 GMT
So far, non-IC electrification has depended in part on the cascade of the 319s but by the time the factory trains are free to to tackle the GC, who knows what will be available. I suspect that the Chiltern routes are fairly far back in the queue - my spies in the smoke-filled GW franchise data room tell me that Southampton-Reading is the first candidate for 3rd rail/OHLE conversion, to provide another opportunity to dig up the tunnel in Soton (no, that can't be right; I mean to say, to provide a gauge-cleared ac route right through to the Midlands and North). Whether the opportunity will be taken to do Salisbury (?_Exeter?) as well is unclear as is the nature of the stock to be used, which will have to be dual voltage - maybe a converison of the 444/450s.
GH
PS The DfT's so-called strategists are about to have a nasty surprise as GW bidders are finding that the bi-mode IEPs can't tackle the S Devon banks, so at least one bidder is looking for a further refurbishment of the HST fleet a la Chiltern Mk 1 mod. This will throw open the entire W of Exeter electrification question sooner rather than later...
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Post by Guest on Jul 25, 2012 19:04:26 GMT
its hard to see reasoning for a pantograph on the aylesbury line for one there's road bridges at wendover and rabans lane aylesbury to consider.
i did notice yesterday large puffs of smoke from outside the maintenance shed area yesterday at aylesbury its not a very ideal diesel or pleasant.
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Post by glom on Jul 25, 2012 20:16:58 GMT
It just brings us full circle to the idea of handing over the Amersham branch and the fast Met North of HoTH to Chiltern altogether and make the Met Watford only. So that's 4th rail on the slows and OHLE on the fasts.
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Post by metrailway on Jul 25, 2012 21:21:03 GMT
I do agree though - there is almost a ban on any more 3rd/4th rail build north of the Thames, and it cannot make economic sense to put catenary Aylesbury - P Risborough Indeed electrifying the Risborough branch on its own would not make any economic sense. Though if it was part of a Chiltern Main Line electrification programme and you wired up to Claydon LNE Junction, you could eliminate the usage of DMUs on the line, and cascade units to other parts of the network. Cheaper for the taxpayer as it saves them money on buying new DMUs and cheaper for the franchisee as they get more homogeneous fleet so saving on maintenance costs. So far, non-IC electrification has depended in part on the cascade of the 319s but by the time the factory trains are free to to tackle the GC, who knows what will be available. I suspect that the Chiltern routes are fairly far back in the queue - my spies in the smoke-filled GW franchise data room tell me that Southampton-Reading is the first candidate for 3rd rail/OHLE conversion, to provide another opportunity to dig up the tunnel in Soton (no, that can't be right; I mean to say, to provide a gauge-cleared ac route right through to the Midlands and North). Whether the opportunity will be taken to do Salisbury (?_Exeter?) as well is unclear as is the nature of the stock to be used, which will have to be dual voltage - maybe a converison of the 444/450s. GH PS The DfT's so-called strategists are about to have a nasty surprise as GW bidders are finding that the bi-mode IEPs can't tackle the S Devon banks, so at least one bidder is looking for a further refurbishment of the HST fleet a la Chiltern Mk 1 mod. This will throw open the entire W of Exeter electrification question sooner rather than later... I know Chiltern electrification would not be in pole position for Network Rail but if whoever takes the franchise after 2022 follows in the enterprising spirit of Chiltern Railways, we could see electrification of the Chiltern Main Line happen quickly with the franchisee fully funding it instead of the taxpayer/NR. Southampton - Reading DC to AC conversion has already been announced along with the electrification of the Varsity and Midland Main lines to form the new " electric spine" which would be complete by 2019. The news about the bi-mode IEPs doesn't surprise me! Don't understand why the Dft are so against an old fashion drag/push on unelectrified bits of the network! It just brings us full circle to the idea of handing over the Amersham branch and the fast Met North of HoTH to Chiltern altogether and make the Met Watford only. So that's 4th rail on the slows and OHLE on the fasts. Won't happen - Unlike the old days, LUL get millions now in track access charges from Chiltern and have no obligation to improve the line unlike Network Rail. LUL won't give up the fasts easily! |
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 26, 2012 10:16:33 GMT
metrailway - I doubt if there is a professional railway man anywhere who can understand DfT's antagonism to dragging/propelling. For all the service extensions off the electrified network (eg Aberdeen, Swansea until last week , Plymouth etc) dragging an emu was always possible (as used to happen with Holyhead pendolinos), but DfT pretended that it took 9 minutes to couple and uncouple, so wasting the time gains from electrification. Such complete rubbish, merely put out to find an excuse for sticking with bi-mode IEPs. As to Chiltern electrification, I fear that Chiltern will be less "old railway" now that (a) Adrian Shooter has retired and (b) the dead hand of DB has fallen on it - and therefore less inclined to invest in infrastructure. That said, there are going to be some surprise offers of infill electrification from some of the GW bidders, although whether these will cut the mustard with DfT, who knows. Even castlebar might be pleased... GH
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Post by Fahad on Jul 26, 2012 16:41:08 GMT
GREENFORD LOOP OHLE?  |
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Post by Guest on Jul 26, 2012 19:13:50 GMT
network rail are busy installing cctv on the griffin lane pedestrian crossing on the single track section at aylesbury today.
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Post by metrailway on Jul 26, 2012 22:25:39 GMT
GREENFORD LOOP OHLE? It's stupid that electrification of this branch has not been announced. Maintaining a diesel fleet for a small branch when the rest of the fleet is electric will be hugely expensive for the franchisee (and possibly the taxpayer). No wonder potential bidders are considering electrifying it. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 27, 2012 11:33:12 GMT
@fahad - and I suspect that the GW bidders want the option of a diversionary route, too. I'm told that if they are saddled with a diesel shuttle, at least one bidder will subcontract the whole thing to Chiltern anyway...
GH
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 5,919
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Post by metman on Jul 27, 2012 11:45:40 GMT
Well that would make sense. They use the same trains as Chiltern.
I can see Chiltern being left behind with the varsity line being opened before electrification being completed.
What sort of route options are looking to be used? Marylebone to Milton Keynes via Aylesbury?
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Post by metrailway on Jul 27, 2012 12:09:04 GMT
Well that would make sense. They use the same trains as Chiltern. I can see Chiltern being left behind with the varsity line being opened before electrification being completed. What sort of route options are looking to be used? Marylebone to Milton Keynes via Aylesbury? 1 tph Marylebone - High Wycombe - Aylesbury - Milton Keynes. It's going via High Wycombe and not Amersham as the purpose of the service is to link the three big towns in Bucks; it is not intended to compete for London traffic. Anyway if 100mph units are used, the time via High Wycombe would match or be faster than the time it takes via Amersham. IIRC it will also have 1tph Reading - MK and 1tph Reading - Bedford. There will be a decent amount of freight and possibly in the future some XC services as well. The line between Oxford and Bletchley will be 90 to 100mph rated with Aylesbury - Claydon LNE being 90mph rated. East of Bletchley the line will be 70mph. I believe it is forecast that the line will make a good operating profit so no subsidies will be required to run services on the line. |
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